ST. CLAIRSVILLE — St. Clairsville City Council members and Mayor Kathryn Thalman’s clash over Thalman and Service Manager Scott Harvey’s ability to make personnel decisions bled over into another council meeting Monday night.

Council members and Thalman continued their debate, which stems from Harvey adding human resources duties to senior executive administrative assistant Elaina Moscato’s job description — and $18,000 to her salary — which council members didn’t approve.

Council held a special meeting Oct. 9 to unanimously pass an ordinance suspending a section of its city personnel policy and procedure manual that stated the mayor and/or city service manager “shall make all changes to payroll, personnel or operational records necessitated by changes or additions to position descriptions.”

Thalman said Monday that everything was done properly, that Law Director Joe Vavra told her Harvey could adjust Moscato’s pay and that counsel members were “throwing a temper tantrum” because they don’t like Vavra’s answer.

“We followed the charter in the city handbook. Again, I would never have done anything that was not blessed by our city attorney, and it was, he said that you are doing exactly what you can,” Thalman said.

She added that the conversation is just going in circles.

“In all fairness, they’ve asked multiple times in multiple ways, and I’ve always answered it the same. So I don’t feel like I can answer the same question asked differently the same way anymore,” Vavra said.

Council president Jim Velas suggested Monday that discussion during council meetings be restricted to only city business.

“I’m just going to throw this out. Everybody knows that we only have two council meetings a month, so the purpose of the council meetings are to actually discuss city business, and nothing else other than that,” Velas said. “If you have any conversations, expressions, comments, or anything that does not have to do specifically with action that the city is going to take to run the city, please take care of them before the meeting or after the meeting, so we can make the best we can of the two meetings.”

Council member Terra Butler replied that she disagrees with Velas and believes that it is council’s duty to have the conversations in a public form to keep residents informed.

“A lot is being said outside of our public meetings, and there are council members that want to clarify questions that are being asked when we’re out in public by our residents,” Butler said. “There are things that we would like to say that don’t necessarily have to do with legislation that we’re doing tonight, but we do want on public record and being that it is a council meeting, it is our council meeting to put out to the public what we want them to know.”

She added that she feels that council should be allowed to say what it wants during its meeting in hopes of keeping the public informed.

Velas said that, if a disagreement is between two individuals, it should be discussed outside of council meetings. Velas was referencing the Oct. 6 meeting where council member Kristi Lipscomb and Thalman clashed over comments Thalman made in a local magazine that Lipscomb believed referenced council members.

Butler interjected that the disagreement is not between two people, it’s council as a whole who disagrees with what Harvey did.

Council member Lucien Murzyn said the conversation should be handled outside of a council meeting.

“When I have a personal problem with somebody, I talk to them,” Murzyn said.

Velas added that he suggests that any conversations not related to regular council business should first be had prior to council’s regular meetings.

Butler said that, if that would be council’s wish, it should be decided at a future meeting because she had comments regarding the ongoing situation that she would like to address.

“As a member of city council, I feel it is important to address the public’s recent questions

and council’s own concerns regarding pay raises that were reportedly given to some city

employees without prior approval from city council,” Butler said.

She added that Thalman previously said that “council is usurping power from the service director,” which she believes is a false statement.

“Fixing compensation was not a power administrators had to begin with. That is,

if we’re following our charter like we are supposed to. It is a core power of council, that is

to be strictly and formally delegated through legislation. Not insinuated by implication,” Butler said. “Going by my research of courts and auditors in Ohio, handbook approval is not a legislative act that amends or supersedes salary ordinances or the charter. The handbook remains an administrative policy document, not a law. Hence legislative vs administrative.

Transparency and adherence to the Charter protect not only the integrity of city

operations, but also the trust of our residents, who expect their tax dollars to be

managed lawfully and without mistakes.”

She added that council’s intent is to uphold the rule of law, maintain transparency and ensure that all branches of local government operate within the authority granted to them by council’s

Charter.

Butler said that she has asked law director Joe Vavra multiple times about the discrepancies between the city handbook and the charter. She said that she wants to know what law says that once council approves a handbook, its contents and provisions become law that supersede the charter. She added that she has not received an answer from Vavra.

Thalman replied to Butler that she and Harvey were told by Vavra that the pay adjustment was completely legal. Harvey said that it was his idea to add HR duties to Moscato’s position.

Butler replied that council wasn’t in favor of having a full-time HR position, that it wanted a part-time HR position and wanted to announce the city was looking to fill the position.

“You guys wanted to look at resumes and decide on who gets hired. That is not council’s privilege. That is the administrator’s,” Harvey said.

Butler replied that it is council’s duty and privilege to set the pay for the position.

Harvey said that council’s duty is to make sure that he is fiscally responsible in his decisions.